i was helping you to understand how you sound to us
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K.
Not worth the time.
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My question is simple, hoping someone on the team can answer.
Is everyone in France on vacation? I know you guys take August off, but did you at least leave behind someone to look at this forum?
How is it possible that there are long term studios in here saying they’re probably not going to stick around anymore and TSB hasn’t replied in over 2 days? Literally posted this on the 31st and then dipped out it feels like.
I know I know, don’t rush the response, but at this point even a well thought out response should have been put together. We’re tearing each other apart in here.
Anyone home? Oh wait and now it’s the weekend… 
EDIT:
BTW, I went into the “Number 1 game” according to this leaderboard, and here’s my honest, semi-unbiased review: https://youtu.be/HTN4G2buIDw
Please tell me how this game has an average retention of over an hour.
11 Likes
As a general rule in France there are the July vacationers and the August vacationers. Every year when they meet it’s chaos Oo
I’m not sure that the people who manage this forum are in France, there are other offices in the world…I really don’t know Oo
The experience that is in your youtube video was already during a previous season, I remember it.
Yeah, Definitely bots, Is it normal that most of the Accounts" in screenshots" and on the rest of the comments have No IDs, nor Wallets, with randomly generated Names?
I have gathered a list of all comments and most of them “have no ID, nor Wallet”
99.99999 % bots…
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Oh my gosh! How is it a regular player & builder who does not get paid to do a job is better at the job than those who do get paid to do such job??? Seriously?! Great job buddy solving the mystery… maybe TSB should hire you or maybe you can teach them how to do it… only one word… INCOMPETENT!!!
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Just wanted to comment on a couple points,
When I was in charge of the game jam competitions we wanted to find ways to encourage new builders to join, this idea of a participation reward was introduced.
A little forward thinking and realised it was very easy to exploit so I brought some rules into place.
Along with this I played every SINGLE entry to EVERY game jam for over 12 months.
Its not difficult to see this BC would also bring new issues that should have been addressed way before launch.
Community frustration is not at the event but more in the way the event is being managed a lack of forward thinking and the way its easily exploited.
Iv been in TSB full time for over 4 years now first as a community member then GM CM, and running the GJs, finally stepping away from TSB Staff in March last year to focus on my own studio (Still 100% TSB focused) and don’t want to take anything away from the progress that had been made.
We are now at a point where I see a lot of long standing studios becoming frustrated with the recent issues (rightfully so) these frustrations are not new and have been building for a while, putting in months of work to try and create an interactive experience only to be defeated by botting/ New GM updates or just lack of audience.
Studios have been asking for more interaction with players, weather it be through access to catalysts for NFT airdrops or even in game transactions. Just more ways to engage with our community, but this does require the host of the events to have access to more details or feature.
Why can’t we have our own leader board in game?
Why can we not have to ability to reward users through the claim page?
Why does TSB not share the features it uses with the community ?
We just want to build better and better experiences, but are held hostage by the development speed of TSB.
The lack of attention towards these event exploits shows the lack of care for the community builders and i feel this is the main point of frustration.
17 Likes
as a player it feels like sandbugs
as a builder it feels like sandbots
whats next … sandbye?
It seems to me that the way to avoid bots would be to disconnect the player if he remains inactive for too long. I am not a programmer, it is not my job but I think that this must be possible…
Dear TSB,
If after you’ve read through all of what’s posted here and you still think that an AMA or a “Sorry” of any form, and playing the “still learning card” or we are “understaffed card” will damage control this, let me recommend what I think you should do instead to address the issue.
Addressing the studios in question.
- Hold off the rewards for the builders in question while you "investigate.
- While investigating, you can release the rewards to those not in question.
- In the event that you agree with us finally, you can re-rank the LB and send the balance rewards since the LB will change.
- Let me remind everyone reading this, it’s a recommendation and what I feel like will at least temporarily address this.
- In the event that upon your discretion, the builders in question did nothing wrong or you gave the eternal benefit of the doubt, prove to us why you feel otherwise. Do not present us with trivial things like: they are a great studio with +++ community, etc. We provided facts and evidence, so slap us back with the same.
- Expect that we will prove you wrong so investigate properly.
- PS. It’s builders vs TSB. Do not pit us against each other. They don’t have to prove themselves to us but they are welcome to do so. However, it is you who have to prove/explain yourself why you are allowing such activities in case you decide they remain in LB. Despite advertising that you want this BC2 to foster quality experiences, let us know why the results are otherwise.
Moving forward
- Data management steps:
-
Extract data and plug it in a software or whatever you currently do.
- Preferably every 2-3 days. Do not wait for 2 weeks to go by or else, you’re becoming reactive again.
-
Have someone read the data. Put things into charts if you prefer visual learning.
- Find trends such as:
- Avg play time change across weeks 1 to present
- Highest stay time vs lowest time, like which builder has the highest stay time (not average)
- How many experiences per builder
- Player visit increase rate across the weeks
- With this exercise, it will make you curious of what other possible trends there would be
- Find trends such as:
-
Set a standard red flag for each trend for example:
- Avg play time
- Is 1 hour or more reasonable in the current state in GM where you can’t save?
- Does 1 hour make sense for a 15-item collection quest?
- Is there a massive jump of play time across the weeks? At what point can we say, it’s “massive.” Set the standard not us.
- Number of experiences per builder
- Are they all the same? At what degree can we say it’s a low effort duplicate? Again, you set the standard not us.
- The GLOBAL Game Jam has this rule so why not get best practices from the long existing contests?
- Are they all the same? At what degree can we say it’s a low effort duplicate? Again, you set the standard not us.
- Player visit increase rate
- Is there a massive increase with their numbers?
- Are the comments real? Or bots who say, “My IQ increased after playing this game.”
- Are they featured, in what order, for how long?
- Do they have activities in their socials, what’s the engagement like in the socials? Does their performance results make sense with only 1 to 3 likes in their posts?
- Is there a massive increase with their numbers?
- Avg play time
-
Flag the sus
- And this is a very important step. You see, if you flag people (FLAG NOT BAN), those who really have the intention to cheat will lie low after getting flagged. You would see that in the next few days in your data.
- The number 1 reason for the exploit is because “they are not seen anyway” “they won’t reprimand us.”
- Can we blame them, partially yes. But who’s more responsible? The event holder.
- Ofc, they will defend themselves. They should and you should be firm about it, ask for proof, if it’s all vague. Give out a fair warning.
- If you actually flag the sus, you’re indirectly telling them to stop
- If they hate you for it, so what? You’re just doing your due diligence. Is a relationship with “exploiters” better to keep than actual builders who provide you quality content?
- And this is a very important step. You see, if you flag people (FLAG NOT BAN), those who really have the intention to cheat will lie low after getting flagged. You would see that in the next few days in your data.
-
Validate
- Check socials
- Check the experiences
- Check the idle players inside the experiences if you come across them
- Check the comments in the experience page if they sound like legit people
- Check if it’s a duplicate or not, or how much has changed, etc.
- And more you will discover
- Contest Improvements
- There are very good suggestions here in the forum but if you forgot to take note here are some of my favorites.
-
My personal suggestion, instead of making another Builders vs Builders Challenge, make a TSB vs Builders Challenge where:
-
We submit our games for application, you verify, you approve.
- If you still think the game is lacking. Recommend how to make it better. You have the Builder’s launchpad, right?
- Repurpose your TSB expert here.
- Give them incentives so they would be motivated to help the developers. Like if the assigned studio garners this x amount of visits, unique players, play time etc… You get an incentive of x amount of sand.
- If you still think the game is lacking. Recommend how to make it better. You have the Builder’s launchpad, right?
-
Reward studios based on the number of players/play time we can bring towards the ecosystem
-
Don’t reward us with ranking so we don’t compare each other, reward us with our individual efforts.
-
You can still do ranking just to showcase who is really nailing it.
- This is where we can foster sharing of best practices because people won’t care or care less how another studio is earning because they won’t be affected by it anymore. They will strive to do their best for you instead.
- Make a tier rewards for it too.
- It’s a win-win isn’t it?
-
As to: what if they bot this, what if they cheat?, it’s not our problem anymore. It’s your company, hold yourself accountable to prevent these kinds of issues.
-
-
Lastly:
if your answer to these is we are understaffed, then address that problem:
- Re-prioritize your agenda or re-purpose people. Don’t highlight your problems and do nothing about it.
If your answer is we are still learning, then act on it.
- You won’t learn if you say, “you have a point, thanks.” then nada.
It may seem tedious on your side, but as cliche as it sounds, prevention is still better than cure. Some diseases may not be curable anymore so you should rather not deal with something perpetual and tire yourselves out.
I hope this is my last post here, and I also hope you see how we want TSB to be better despite the feelings of frustrations. I wish for the best for the builders and TSB staff who care.
21 Likes
[OFF-TOPIC]
Hey my Friends, I can’t sleep well for a couple of days now.
Even though I always try to mix technical posts and try to break the ice a little, I am really, really sad and disappointed with what is happening here.
I’m going to stop by here to show a little bit of the feelings that many here have.
Even if this doesn’t generate any kind of empathy from TSB, at least we here in collective therapy will at least be able to relieve ourselves of such emotional pain.
I’m not sure if everyone understand what we mean by “quality”, so I present here the Showcase of the Creators’ Fund Cells.
Showcase December 2021
Showcase January 2022
Showcase February 2022
Showcase Abril 2022
Showcase May 2022
Showcase June 2022
Showcase July 2022
Showcase Setember 2022
Showcase August 2022
So it doesn’t matter what people say; each of us knows how much we work and rework in this community. And here, I’m not speaking directly to the Studios’ CEOs but more precisely to everyone who are not even here to read, all the unemployed, without much hope, and still believing in a dream for working remotly, build games, and a living here.
Many of us are even more vulnerable because we are in economically insecure countries. It is very sad to see the situation of neglect towards us. It really seems like we’re here almost as if we’re requesting charity. It is very sad to lose hope in this way and to know that it will be very difficult to rebuild it.
I still have hope in The Sandbox. More precisely, if it really decides to focus on the grassroots UGCs, especially those like me who can’t afford to have a studio and are just developers seeking opportunities here. If they truly decide to value each asset from the very talented artists who are showcased here.
This is the true quality of the community, and here they are transforming us into something insignificant, small, nobody, unimportant. But understand this: “We are The Sandbox.”
I really hope that TSB comes out stronger from this situation and truly understands where the value of the UGC community lies.
And it’s okay to feel emotional because we know what we’ve sacrificed up to this point. No holidays, no weekends, and many can’t even imagine taking a vacation.
Take care and be well, despite the situation.
With much affection to all of you,
Daniel
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Will many wannabe builders be dropped out from this because it seems you want to gate who enters BC 2? Because many people’s experiences, including mine, will be considered low effort in your eyes.
FYI, I barely made it through GM to get a simple game up and running using templates and some basic rule. My guess is if I had to build from a plain field, I’d drop the idea entirely.
I wouldn’t speak for everyone but I’d say there’s a good likelihood alot of ppl will feel that they are not cut out to be a builder because of how the selective it’s going to be.
I believe they tried something akin to what you recommended in your thread in terms of detection, and it upset alot of people because stats were missing.
How will the community know for sure that metrics are right and not just end up like the 1st iteration of results for week 1 and 2?
Also, I’d like to know if it’s fair that I invite my friends to my game to help me clock hours?
Or if it’s fair that I join a group of ppl in TG or Discord to visit each of their experiences, and they in turn, do the same? I’ve been pitched this by a few different friends in different groups. I do see many of them on the lb as well, doing pretty well in fact.
These are nice and simple steps that could improve the leaderboard. With the data TSB has, these improvements could even be implemented manually for the top 10-100 experiences if needed.
Additionally, checking visitors or players for similar patterns, such as “time of joining TSB,” “randomly generated names,” and a majority being non-KYCed, could warrant further investigation. Especially when numerous illegitimate services are offering KYCed Sandbox accounts, this makes it even more critical to investigate such patterns. 
4 Likes
Interesting how Index Games was trending for four weeks non stop and then they aren’t trending anymore after your independent investigation
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Unless something new comes up, I’ll make this my last reply / observation.
Builders know.
Its been pretty blaringly obvious in these 2 builders challenge which experiences have tread outside of the fair play parameters laid out by the tsb team. Its been difficult watching those same experiences reap disproportionate rewards week over week along with favorable visibility.
If weve known this whole time, without the benefit of deep investigative dives, then it really is incumbent upon the tsb team to seriously step up their vetting in these contests, whatever form they take.
Flagging experiences as a warning is an excellent first step that doesnt disqualify an experience right off the bat, rather lets those creators know that they are being watched. Generally that would be enough to stop the unwanted behavior in its tracks.
Perhaps community flags could be implemented, in the same way you can flag x, insta or meta posts. 1 flag might not trigger an investigation, but a handful of them should. It could be discrete and back end only to allow rapid investigation. The community flags would not appear in the experience page, unless, until a judgment has been made. Flagged experiences would still be able to make their cases to dispute any allegations and clear their names.
There are so many great thoughts and ideas that have been suggested in this exceptionally discussion. With a few changes, i believe we can all move past this growing pain.
You can tell how passionate the community is, and how much we want tsb to succeed. Mis steps are always a part of any platform as it matures and grows, its the response and action to pressure points that ultimately define it going forward.
I forgot to add my last point.
Ive seen a number of experiences not included in the biweekly results who then have to post in here to request they be added. This just slows things down and isnt very efficient.
It’s been mentioned a couple times now that registering for the bc2 could fix this right away, and put the onus on the builder to sign up, rather than in tsb to ensure it is captured in the results.
It would verify for the builder that they are included, and in cases like Dankoyy mentioned where they got paid for maps they hadn’t even intended to enter in the contest.
Its odd how some experiences get left out. I mean, what would cause that? In my case , i understand why, but I’ve seen a handful of builders bring this up.
As part of the form, tsb could add in checkboxes that force builders to sign off on their clear understanding of the rules, and the consequences of not abiding by them. Maybe its just cosmetic, but some people need to sign off on rules to remind them of the paramaters they must operate under.
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Some great points I am all for the community Flagging.
From experiences forms are a pain, people don’t always fill the in correctly, spam input and you end up with a manual process that can fail or has difficulty scaling.
It could be a sort term solution but don’t think its a fix.
An option could be to use the Experience Tags, add the Tag BC2 onto an experience you wish to be eligible for rewards at this point have an on screen prompt where you would agree to the rules and maybe have some useful links.
Again not a permanent fix, but would require a little less resources ten a form and would allow us to have a category of games for each BC.
3 Likes
+1 I like your idea of the opt in with tags!
1 Like
I have a phrase that I really like and use for myself because when expressing opinions, there’s always a risk of making mistakes and being judged.
" Judge me by how good my best ideas are, and not by how bad my worst ideas are."
Some here bring up points that I believe are in different processes. I see that BC has a specific purpose from the perspective of TSB. 
As I explained in my post, BC has different characteristics from former GMF. This implies that a detailed QA is apparently not in TSB’s plans.
In this sense, I think there is an inconsistency in asking for quality or a process compared to the former GMF when, in reality, the goal of BC is not in the same realm as the former GMF.
This becomes evident when we try to fit 1274 experiences into the same group, which is not true in reality. There is a difference among community members in terms of resources, available hours, seniority, privileges or even talent. When we take all this beautiful complexity of creating “Interactive Art,” commonly known as “Games,” and reduce it to just one parameter called “Engagement Score” there is a loss of value for a community that is very rich in quality.
That’s why I think it’s clear that BC will not please the majority. Although it has produced good results for all newcomers, encouraging for example Voxel Artists to individually earn some SAND with their LANDs or increasing the experiences published. But,
The BC doesn’t embrace the complexity necessary for Studios that are maintaining long-lasting relationships of mutual trust with the platform, that have invested and continue to invest substantial resources to create the highest quality games, in terms of both logic and art design.
Knowing the risks involved and the value the UGC community have, here is my question to TSB.
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I had a thought on this yesterday. I propose a compromise between the form and the freely submit method: The first experience is ‘free’, and any subsequent entries into the BC require submitting the form. The form triggers a quick QA review to make sure that it isn’t a “low quality duplicate” using the same criteria that Game Jams have used for at least two years. You could still do this with the Experience Tag.
Inviting your friends and joining supportive Discord channels seems to be part of what the BC is trying to get you to do, so I don’t see anything wrong with it.
As far as Builder’s Launchpad goes, has anyone been accepted? I’ve submitted two experiences (both former GJ entries, one a top 10), and I haven’t heard anything back other than the “thanks for submitting” letter.
2 Likes